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Master of Comparative Religion ..............................$75

Comparative Religion
Discourse #1

This is the overview of the Comparative Religion 1 Course.  After ordering this course, you will receive an email in your mail box containing this week's work. 

For a sample of this course, go to Comparative Religion Sample

To Order this course, go to Comparative Religion

Comparative Religion, A Core Course for ULC Ministers
Course created by Rev. Kythera Ann

            Why comparative religion?  A firm grounding in comparative religion allows an individual to perceive the truth that is within all traditions.  As ministers, we need to respond to those we are called to serve.  Individuals come to us from many walks of life, many cultures and religious backgrounds.  It is important that we have a framework and information to draw upon so that we can be of the most help.  We need to communicate with those who come to us for guidance within a context they can understand.  We, as human beings, have a tendency to address everything from our own perspective and assume that those we talk to understand our words as we mean them.  We all have had experiences where this has backfired.  It is imperative that as ministers, we make every effort to communicate from the perspective of those we serve.  This requires us to stretch and become more holistic in our approach and dissemination of “The Word.”  For example, we may personally feel more comfortable and natural speaking in terms of “angels”; it is not so difficult to learn to use the word “dakini” with those from Hindu and Tibetan Buddhist backgrounds.

            We also, as ministers, need to serve all ages.  How we put things to a five-year-old is just as important as how we communicate with an adult.  We need to develop techniques that inspire and expand the minds and hearts of children and adults.  It is a wise minister who ensures a holistic approach, culturally and religiously, in all of their activities.  In this way do we serve the broadest spectrum of humanity…touch the most hearts…and do our part in eliminating the prejudices and bigotry that come from limited understanding.

            ULC is offering this comparative religion course.  It is informational and experiential.  Techniques are offered on methods of teaching World Religions to children as well as adults.  The course examines the predominant religions of both East and West.  To do this correctly, the history of what are considered “dead” religions (such as Egyptian and Greek) will be explored to better understand where current beliefs come from and how cultures influence the forming of religions.  Other, less dominant belief systems, such as Native American and Wicca, will also be touched upon.  Similarities of theology cloaked in different symbolism will be considered as well as the differences.  Participants will not only learn about Eastern and Western religious thought, but also have opportunities to access an existential sense of what it is like to see and feel from various traditions.  By completing this course, participants will develop a global perspective and broaden their own horizons of self-understanding, as well as receive a Masters degree in Comparative Religions

What Others Have Gained from this Course

“What a joy to be in Kythera’s class.  Not only was my knowledge of religion enhanced, my inner light was brightened by being part of her class.”

Rev. Sandy Clark
President of UCM

“A real eye-opener.  This course should be mandatory for citizenship on this planet.  Without understanding, there can be no acceptance:  without acceptance we cannot see God in ourselves, let alone each other.”

Michael Adler
Healer

“What I learned is that we are basically coming from the same place, and how individuals utilize their free will to interpret God, the Christ, and the Holy Spirit.  I felt great with the Rabbi…loved the Burmese Buddhist Monastery…I found that I could recognize Spirit in all traditions.”

Helen Bradley
Retired

“I believe knowledge about other traditions and connecting with people who approach Spirit in different ways, has enhanced and strengthened my own walk, and will do the same for others. “

Reverend Kythera Ann

Rev 
Kythera Ann      Reverend Kythera Ann is a well-known lecturer and writer throughout the United States, currently residing in North Carolina.  She has many years of study in the original Aramaic and Hebrew tongues, a degree in History and Education with extensive studies in Theology, Philosophy and Esoteric Western Traditions.  Her published books and chant tapes on the usage of sound from a western perspective have had wide acclaim throughout the world.  For more information about her, visit her website.

"...she has continually impressed me with her tenacity to the "truth." She's positive, uplifting..."

Reverend Michael Thompson- Santa Cruz Church of the Holy Spirit

 "Kythera Ann...instills a deep sense of dedication and a high quality of service. We recommend Kythera's teaching abilities and high business ethics to present seminars and training programs."

"Since I am a Tibetan Buddhist monk, it always amazes me how Kythera's experiences and teachings parallel the explanations given to such subjects through Dzogchen meditation. She is a true Tara and proves that the mystic's experience is true in all traditions...thus proving the universal reality that is shared on all dimensions."

Douglas Brodley-Tibetan Buddhist MonkThe Vajrayana Foundation
Overview of Course

     
This course consists of weekly packets.  In each packet you will find information to study.  As with any course, the more effort you put into it, the more you will get out of it.  Each packet will also provide suggested reading, websites to explore, and activities for you to do.  It is highly recommended that you do as much of the “suggested” course material as possible.  This will allow you to have a far more interesting and experiential journey throughout the course.  There are no graded “tests” per se, but Kythera Ann will occasionally supply quizzes or other activities encouraging you to think and remember.

     It is not part of the scope of the ULC course to offer individual tutoring/counseling or answer questions, but Rev. Kythera Ann can be contacted apart from this venue.  You may then make separate arrangements with her so she may facilitate your specific needs. Kythera@angelic.com

Reminder: All material in this course is copyrighted.  You need specific permission from Rev. Kythera Ann to reproduce anything more than an occasional quote of three sentences or less.
Sample of Course
 

MASTER OF COMPARATIVE RELIGION

COMPARATIVE RELIGION - MASTER OF COMPARATIVE RELIGION
Comparative Religion Title
Discourse #3

Greetings, Rev. !

This is a sample of the Comparative Religion Course. You are not necessary subscribed to this course, but this sample is to show you a sample of what this course is about. To order this course, go here: Comparative Religion

Hello  and welcome.  This is week three of the Comparative Religion 1 Course.  If you have a problem receiving the course or go a week without getting one, please contact amy@ulcseminary.org immediately so she can correct the situation and re-send you your material.

Discourse 3 Index
Interfaith Part II:


Similar Teachings Throughout Religions

“Mankind comes to me along many roads, and on whatever road a man approaches me, on that do I welcome him, for all roads are mine. “
The Bhagavad-Gita

         For Comparative Religion, and continuing the theme of Interfaith, it is appropriate to briefly review the many similarities of teachings throughout the world’s belief systems.  The texts are divided up to relate to familiar subjects.

The Golden Rule:

bahaiBaha'i Faith: "He should not wish for others that which he doth not wish for himself, nor promise that which he doth not fulfill."
Gleanings from the Writings of  Baha'u'llah, p. 266

buddhistBuddhism: “Hurt not others in ways you find hurtful.”
Tripitaka, Udnana-varga 5.18

christianChristianity: “Therefore all things whatsoever you desire that men should do to you, do you evenso unto  them; for this is the Law and the Prophets.”
Matt. 7:12

ConfusicianConfucianism: “Tzu-Kung asked: "Is there one principle upon which one's whole life may proceed?"  The Master replied, "Is not Reciprocity such a principle? ...what you do not yourself desire, do not put before others." “
Analects of Confucius, Book XV, Chapter XXIIl (Legge Translation 1861)

ConfuciousConfucianism: “Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence.”
Mencius VII.A.4

HinduismHinduism: “This is the sum of the Dharma: do not unto others that which would cause pain if done to you.”
Mahabharata 5:1517

IslamIslam: “Not one of you is a believer unless he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.”
Forty Hadith of an-Nawawi 13

JudaismJudaism: “What is hurtful to yourself do not to your fellow man.  That is the whole of the Torah and the remainder is but commentary.”
Talmud, Shabbat 31a

JainismJainism: “A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated.”
Sutrakritanga 1.11.33

Native 
AmericanNative American: “All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One.”
Black Elk

TaoTaoist: “The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own.  He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind.  He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful.”
Tao Teh Ching, Chapter 49 trans. by John C. H. Wu

WiccaWiccan: “An it harms none, do as ye will.”


ZorastrianZorastrian:
“That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself.”
Zend Avesta, Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5

Peace:

BahaiBaha'i Faith: "I charge you all that each one of you concentrate all the thoughts of your heart on love and unity.  When a thought of war comes, oppose it by a stronger thought of peace.  A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of love.  Thoughts of war bring destruction to all harmony, well-being, restfulness and content.  Thoughts of love are constructive of brotherhood, peace, friendship, and happiness."
Abdu'l-Baha Paris Talks, p. 29

BuddhistBuddhism: “Victory breeds hatred, for the defeated live in pain.  Happily live the peaceful, giving up victory and defeat.”
Dhammapada 201

christianChristianity: “Blessed are the peacemakers; for they shall be called the children of G  d.” 
Matthew 5:9 King James Version

ChristianJudaismChristianity & Judaism: “Do you want long life and happiness? Strive for peace with all your heart.”
Psalm 34: 12, 14 King James Version

ChristianJudaismChristianity & Judaism: “How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good tidings, who publishes peace.”
Isaiah 52:7 (partial verse)

ConfucianismConfucianism: "Through what can the Empire be settled?  Through unity.  Who can unite it?  One who is not fond of killing." 
Mencius 1.A.6

ConfuscianismHinduism: “As rivers flow into the ocean but cannot make the vast ocean overflow, so flow the streams of the sense world into the sea of peace that is the sage.”
Bhagavad Gita 2.70

OmHinduism: “Peace be to earth and to airy spaces! Peace be to heaven, peace to the waters, peace to the plants and peace to the trees! May all the gods grant me peace! By this invocation of peace may peace be diffused! By this invocation of peace may peace bring peace! With this peace the dreadful I appease, with this peace the cruel I appease, with this peace all evil I appease, so that peace may prevail, happiness prevail! May everything for us be peaceful!”
Atharva Veda 19.9.14

IslamIslam : “And make not Allah by your swearing (by him) an obstacle to your doing good and guarding (against evil) and making peace between men, and Allah is hearing and knowing.”
Qur'an 2.224

IslamIslam: “And if they lean to peace, lean you also to it; and put your trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.”
Qur'an 8:61

JudaismJudaism: “The whole of the Torah is for the purpose of promoting peace.”
Talmud, Gittin 59b

JudaismJudaism: “Rabbi Baruqa of Huza often went to the marketplace at Lapet.  One day, the prophet Elijah appeared to him there, and Rabbi Baruqa asked him, "Is there anyone among all these people who will have a share in the World to Come?" Elijah answered, "There is none." Later, two men came to the marketplace, and Elijah said to Rabbi Baruqa, "Those two will have a share in the World to Come!" Rabbi Baruqa asked the newcomers, "What is your occupation?" They replied, "We are clowns.  When we see someone who is sad, we cheer him up.  When we see two people quarreling, we try to make peace between them."”
Talmud, Ta'anit 22a

KhandaSikhism: “Now is the gracious Lord's ordinance promulgated, No one shall cause another pain or injury; All mankind shall live in peace together, Under a shield of administrative benevolence.”
Adi Granth, Sri Raga, M.5, p.  74

TaoTaoism: “Tao invariably takes no action, and yet there is nothing left undone.  If kings and barons can keep it, all things will transform spontaneously.  If, after transformation, they should desire to be active, I would restrain them with simplicity, which has no name.  Simplicity, which has no name, is free of desires.  Being free of desires, it is tranquil.  And the world will be at peace of its own accord.”
Tao Te Ching 37

Seek Within:

bahaiBaha'i Faith: "O SON OF SPIRIT!  I created thee rich, why dost thou bring thyself down to poverty?  Noble I made thee, wherewith dost thou abase thyself?  Out of the essence of knowledge I gave thee being, why seekest thou enlightenment from anyone besides Me?  Out of the clay of love I molded thee, how dost thou busy thyself with another?  Turn thy sight unto thyself, that thou mayest find Me standing within thee, mighty, powerful and self-subsisting."
Baha'u'llah, The Hidden Words, Arabic #13

BuddhismBuddhism: “If you think the Law is outside yourself, you are embracing not the absolute Law but some inferior teaching.”
Maja writings of Nichinen Daishonion Vol.  1, pg.3-5

ChristianChristianity: “The kingdom of G  d cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here!  or, lo there!  For, behold, the kingdom of G  d is within you.”
Luke 17:20-21 King James Version

ConfuscianismConfucianism: “The Superior Man seeks within himself.  The inferior man seeks within others.”
Analects 15:20

HinduHinduism: “Bright but hidden, the Self dwells in the heart. Everything that moves, breathes, opens, and closes Lives in the Self.  He is the source of love and may be known through love but not through thought. He is the goal of life.  Attain this goal! The shining Self dwells hidden in the heart.  Everything in the cosmos, great and small, Lives in the Self.  He is the source of life, Truth beyond the transience of this world.  He is the goal of life.  Attain this goal!”
Mundaka Upanishad 2.2.1-2

ShintoShintoism: “The deity is immanent in man and man is inherent in the deity; there is neither the divine nor the human; there is no difference in essence at all between them.”

KhandaSikhism:  “This is a wonderful, unique discourse: The living self is the image of the Supreme Being. It is neither old nor a child; Neither it suffers pain, nor in death's snare is caught; It is not shattered nor dies; In all time it is pervasive. It feels not heat nor cold; Neither has it friend nor foe; It feels not joy nor sorrow: All is its own; to it belongs all might. It has neither father nor mother; Beyond the limits of matter has it ever existed. Of sin and goodness it feels not the touch-- Within the heart of each being it is ever awake.”
Adi Granth, Gaund, M.5, p.  868 

If you are interested in reading more topic comparisons between beliefs, visit Rev. Kythera Ann’s website called Peaceseeds.  The site is dedicated to the concept that when one studies different religious traditions, one is struck by the repeated similarities of basic truths.

Why the Hate, Fear, War?  What YOU Can Do


          We have been focusing on the positive aspects of interfaith studies.  We need to remember that, for many, when faced with something that appears different (e.g.: a religion, race, culture), they fear it.  From that fear arises also the need to boost the ego by claiming that they are “better than” or their religion, culture is “better than” …somehow  “more correct, more right” than the way the “other” people are living, believing.  Fear, combined with an overlay of self-proclaimed righteousness, has been a fertile ground for much of humanity’s sad history.

          Differences between various religions and philosophies need not divide and separate, but can instead enrich our lives and deepen our capacity to love.  Any minister can do their part to eliminate religious intolerance and fear by helping those they interface with to find understanding, respect, and a common ground to interact.

          What follows are three tools for you to consider.  It is my hope that they spark your own imagination to find more ways of bringing tolerance and peace into our society.

Adult Education
          As a minister, it is likely that you will have the opportunity to be involved in a formal or informal study group.  The following graphic can be printed and is designed to spark discussion about various religious traditions. 


Youth Education

            It is a delight to share and teach youth.  Here is an activity that ministers can use to initiate great conversations, and it is a fun teaching aid.  Remember making “cootie” catchers as a kid?  This is a comparative religion version.  It should have a different name, so this version will be called a “Light” catcher.  “Light” as in illumination of thought.   The pattern in this section is one that you can print out.  It actually is to scale and works.  It is a simple principle; you could design your own to suit your needs when working with youth.

light 
catcher

Instructions to make the Light catcher:
  1. Fold inwards along AA, BB, and open out again.  Mark the center where the fold lines cross.
  2. Fold back each corner to the center along each line AB.
  3. Fold each of the new corners (A,A,B,B) inwards to the center.
  4. Snip each blue triangle along the faint line.  A to the white area, B to the white area (there are four of them).  Do not cut into the white area!  The cuts should line up to the open edges of red.
  5. Turn the catcher over and slip the thumb and three fingers into the pockets that are formed.  Pinch the corners together so it looks like the pictures below.
  6. Practice opening and closing the catcher, first in one direction, then the other.

lc closed       lc open        lc open 2

lc 
fingers      lc finger 
2

One way to play with the Light catcher:

After everyone has made their Light catchers and practiced opening and closing them, they could divide into partners.  One person starts with their catcher and asks their partner to choose one of the four symbols on the outer flap.  The person holding the catcher then spells out loud the name of the symbol and opens and closes the catcher in alternating directions with each letter.  On the last letter, show the open catcher to the partner and ask them to tell you the first number between one and twenty they can think of.  Again, open/close the catcher in opposite directions, counting out loud the number the partner gave.  When the number is reached keep tcher open.  Ask which symbol they like.  Flip the flap up and read what it says under the symbol.

Note to instructors: This Light catcher has symbols of world religious traditions and sayings from major texts and teachers of various traditions.  Further explanations will be needed than this brief exposure, but it is a great activity to work into a larger program.

Public Ceremony

         Being a minister, it often can happen that it is appropriate for you to officiate or contribute to the public forum in a meaningful way.  An example of this might be a dedication ceremony for a new city park.  Imagine you have been asked to give the blessing for this event.  What to do?  There will be tons of people there from every conceivable belief system.  You don’t want to offend anyone, but you do want to engage and inspire everyone.

         Song, dance, and candles are answers for almost any public group situation.  Song because people have to “give voice,” and by doing that participate, “own” the event.  Dance because it connects people physically and creates cohesiveness.  Candles (when it is at night) because 99% of people have warm fuzzy emotions around the concept of candlelight.

Dance:

         The following is an example of a multi-faith dance that could be used as the blessing or as a part of the blessing at a public event.  This is a good one to use in public because it not only honors multiple faiths, there are no dance steps to learn!  If you personally feel a bit daunted about getting a large group together to do something like this, don’t be.  People are amazingly easy to work with in a public situation.  You can also have a few friends who are familiar with what you are going to do and place them strategically through the audience to help.


Song:
         There are a great many songs appropriate for public events.  The best public songs (if you want everyone to participate and sing) are those that have familiar tunes and short, repetitive lyrics.  The following song, I have used time and time again in public venues.  People always like it and respond.  The first time I did it in public I led 400 people to sing it in a round.  Awesome.  It is sung to the tune of Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose.

Love, Love, Love, Love
Sons and daughters of Spirit
This is your call
Love your neighbor as yourself
For G  d loves us all.
   
Candles:

candle          There are so many lovely ways to incorporate candles in an evening event.  Offered here, for your consideration, is one candle-lighting ceremony.  I have used it on several occasions and people (yes, especially the strangers) have always been moved.  Since this has sixteen speaking parts, if the group is bigger, place non-speakers evenly between the speakers.  Give each non-speaker a white candle.  They can light theirs at the end of the ceremony and take it home with them for a remembrance.  Alternately, if it is very dark, have them stand in the circle with the white candles lit, so that those with speaking parts and an unlit candle can read their lines.  Also, if you have less people than parts, give people more than one part to say and candle to light.

           If you decide to do this ceremony, get all the candles well in advance.  It sometimes can be challenging getting the 8”-12” tapers in all of these colors.  Also print each speaking part out in a large font and tape it on a large index card.  This will help people be able to read their part in the dark and not fumble around for glasses.

Put a large white candle in center of circle of people.  As each person reads their part, they light their candle off the center one, then step back into the circle, holding their candle.

  1. While lighting the center white candle the ceremony leader says: “Spirit embodies consciousness. One can find Spirit everywhere on planet earth.  Though each person or form of consciousness may communicate in different ways, they are all a part of Spirit.  Each is a gift and integral part of the whole.”  Ceremony leader then steps back to join the circle.
  2. Speaker:  I light the black candle in friendship, peace and love for all the Black people in the world. Watch the flame closely, please.
  3. Speaker:  I light the red candle in friendship, peace and love for all Native Americans and all indigenous people around the world.  Watch the flame closely, please.
  4. Speaker:  I light the white candle in friendship, peace and love for all Caucasian people around the world.  Watch the flame closely, please.
  5. Speaker:  I light the yellow candle in friendship, peace and love for all the Oriental, Asian and Pacific Island people around the world.  Watch the flame closely, please.
  6. Speaker: I light the brown candle in friendship, peace and love for all the Indian and Semitic people around the world.  Watch the flame closely, please.
  7. Speaker: I light the purple candle in friendship, peace and love for all other people around the world. Watch the flame closely, please.
  8. Speaker: I light the green candle in friendship, peace and love for all the standing people and all other members of the vegetable kingdom.  Watch the flame closely, please.
  9. Speaker:  I light the orange candle in friendship, peace and love for all the four leggeds, and all others in the animal kingdom who live on or in the land.  Watch the flame closely, please.
  10. Speaker: I light the blue candle in friendship, peace and love for all the winged creatures, and all others of the kingdom of air. Watch the flame closely, please.
  11. Speaker: I light the turquoise candle in friendship, peace and love for all consciousness that lives in the kingdom of water, from the dolphins and the whales to water snakes and water sprites. Watch the flame closely, please.
  12. Speaker: I light the gray candle in friendship, peace and love for all consciousness within the element of earth, the mineral kingdom. Watch the flame closely, please.
  13. Speaker: I light the gold candle in friendship, peace and love for all consciousness that dwells within the element of fire. Fire holds the Spirit of our flame, our intent, our sun, our solar system and our Universe. Watch the flame closely please.
  14. Speaker: I light the silver candle in friendship, peace and love for all consciousness that dwells unseen by our mortal eyes, yet reflects its beingness in our world of phenomenal reality. Watch the flame closely, please.
  15. Speaker: Have you noticed the light from one candle is the same as the others, even though the outside color is different on each one? The consciousness of people, of nations, of animals, birds, kingdoms of consciousness within all realms ...vary, one to another; this is necessary for the world to exist ...but all consciousness has basic needs. We wish to be recognized, respected, to be called by name, to grow, and to be loved.
  16. Part spoken by ceremony leader:  The distances between continents, oceans, even planets and stars are easily spanned through modern technology... bringing the awareness not only of our neighbors, country, and planet... but of the whole Universe… closer to us. Science is helping to prove what mystics have always known. That we're all connected ...that Spirit is everywhere ...and all consciousness responds (wherever it is) to our every thought. Let us all strive each day to highlight the ideas of universal love, understanding, and inner connectedness.  In diversity...lies strength.  The freedoms we cherish have a responsibility to them ...understanding and respecting the uniqueness of all other consciousness... working together with love and respect in Unity, as Spirit intended.
Ceremony ends with the Dance of Universal Peace.


Recommended Resources

     Here is a list of general resource material that you are encouraged to have available on the topics of this lesson.  Some of these items will be available online or at your local library.

  • Complete Guide to All Religions & Interfaith Marriage Services, by Abraham Klausner
  • Oneness, Great Principles Shared by all Religions, by Jeffrey Moses
  • Spiritual Dance and Walk: An Introduction to the Dances of Universal Peace and Walking Meditations of Samuel L. Lewis, by Samuel L. Lewis, Neil Douglas-Klotz, Marie Demcho-Wagor (Editor)
  • Consult Girl Scout and Boy Scout councils in your area.  As youth organizations that have members of diverse faiths, they have designed many ceremonies and activites that honor all religious traditions.  I have been a Girl Scout and then a leader for the last thirty years.  The resources for anything to do with "inclusive" religious activites is fabulous.
  • If you find you have need of graphics* involving various religious traditions, visit Rev. Kythera Ann's site Crystal Cloud Graphics, where she has designed a multitude of religious graphics.  Graphics on that site are free for personal use.  Crystal Cloud Graphics is also available for commissioned custom work.

* Reminder:  Graphics appearing in course material need permission to use elsewhere unless it is specifically stated that it is created for you to use in a teaching setting (i.e.: graphics under Adult Education and Youth Education in this lesson).
Recommended Activities for the Week
Here are some suggested activities for this week.
As a reminder, the more you do, the more you will get out of the course!
  • Print out this packet and add it to the three-ring binder you have for this course.  Be sure to write notes on the pages as things strike you.  It will help you to remember things.
  • Browse the web site Dances of Universal Peace.  It is a great compendium of information, songs and music that one can use for interfaith activities.  Also you can find links to search for groups in your area to join with to learn the dances and songs.  Almost always these activities are free or donation.
  • Here is a question for you to ponder, which arises when considering Interfaith and secular Religions that we haven’t discussed.  There is no right or wrong answer, but it is something, as a minister you need to think about and resolve for yourself.  The question is, “Where is the line drawn between the separation of church and state.”  Another way of wording it might be: “Is it appropriate for religious leaders to take political action publicly.”
    An interesting web site is Sojourners.  It has done a lot of pondering on this question and was instrumental in promoting the Interfaith petition of “G  d is not a Republican, or a Democrat.”  On that page be sure to scroll down to read the reasoning behind the petition. 

    Note that this activity is not an endorsement of Sojourner's position.  It is put here to help you look at the question, perhaps from perspectives you had not thought of before.  Your conclusion is yours.

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